“Building solidarity between peoples is a revolutionary task”

For two weeks between the months of May and June this year, the member of the Movement of People Affected by Dams (MAB) Josivaldo Alves visited grassroots organizations in five states in the northeastern and southwestern United States. “It was a very productive trip, in which we exchange experiences with various grassroots groups and learned a lot from them.” With this exchange trip, MAB attempts to strengthen the ties of international solidarity with U.S. organizations. 

Invited by a group of allies in the country, the movement decided to make a visit to understand energy policies and the reality of workers in the United States. “The U.S. media controls much of the information, which do not reach the other countries,” says Josivaldo. 

Read the following interview with the militant on June 8th in Las Vegas, New Mexico, on the eve of his return to Brazil. 

What are your impressions of this visit to the United States? 

We are very surprised at the level of inequality within the United States. Inequality is proof that American democracy is more like a dictatorship. There are many people homeless, many people starving, people have no access to electricity and basic services. It’s unbelievable take note that more than 50 million people suffer from hunger and receive help from the government. And this total, 35 million have at least one family member working. Ie, the level of poverty is so great that people need government support. The U.S. media controls a lot of information, which do not reach the other countries. In fact, before I got here, we did not know what was the reality of working men and women in the United States. This media filter tries to block information that could expose the social and economic contradictions of the United States to the world. 

What is the reality of immigrant workers in the United States? 

In New York, participated in meetings at the periphery with Brazilians and other Latin and in different neighborhoods. It was very clear that immigrants and blacks are treated like unwanted people in the country. Police violence, denial of access to work, the treatment that is given in basic education itself is defining a position of much prejudice. 

Have you visited one of the leading Indian reservations in the United States, the Navajo people in Arizona. What was your perception of the struggle of the indigenous people? 

Specifically, they have a very high resistance against imperialism, are centuries of resistance against colonization. Today they are in a very difficult situation. Even though in general they have their land well defined, we note that the Navajos are a people who are living upon the earth but can not live off the land, have to live compensation of companies that exploit the ore production. The Indians here have to turn into ordinary workers to make a decent living and this creates difficulty for the people themselves. On the other hand, there is a major attempt to have a certain autonomy, there is a self-government of this people, but in practice this government is run by the state. 

You visited areas of coal production, a major source of electricity production for domestic consumption. Moreover, he met the experiences of oil and natural gas. It has some similarity to the energy issue in Brazil? How this reflects on the lives of workers?

First have to consider that the U.S. consumes about 25% of the world’s electricity and 30% oil. The energy remains the most strategic issue in the contemporary world, and the U.S. centralize this strategy through its policy and transnational corporations. We see that perhaps is one of the countries with the most coverage, but at the same time we realize that there are many people without access to electricity. So this is a great contradiction, living in the country that consumes more energy and still have people, especially in rural areas without access to energy. This resembles the reality of Brazil, even though the scales are incomparable in terms of consumption. Energy consumed, such consumption is centered in a very privileged audience, first comes the industry, then comes the rich families, because classes do not consume energy equally. 

How do you see the discussions of the organizations here on the energy model? 

I don’t, to be honest. There is no debate about the model, just debate about environmental justice, fair transition, climate. The discussion is only about the matrix/pattern, but in a very superficial way, without understanding how the energy industry is structured. There isn’t yet an understanding of the importance of a new energy model that allow for the possibility of building a just society. The debate here is much about the environmental or climate issue in that sense there is a mistake because the problem of the emission of toxic gases from power is perceived only as a climate issue that is unrelated to the production of commodities. 

But why this debate is important? 

Because it is necessary to discuss a project. Any serious organization of the working class who want to discuss reality with commitment to the transformation will have to discuss the model. If you discuss model, you will discuss the major contradictions of capitalism. This is central to any society. For example, in Brazil, energy policy is driven by transnational logic. To discuss “alternatives” within the current model is to make a fight at least naive. Without discussing model, there is no environmental justice, because without transforming capitalist structures you have no way to do justice. You will get at most some isolated benefits, but to believe that it is possible to make a just transition without confronting the economic model is naive. 

What is the importance of international solidarity? 

The most important thing is that the working class can not be isolated between the south and north and between countries. Class solidarity is important in a county within a state, a country and between countries. The MAB supportive relationship with the organizations of the United States is very much needed. We need to find organizations that struggle against capitalism. Secondly, there is only the possibility of a triumph of the working class, if it is well articulated with clarity of your task as a class. Thirdly, we need to better understand the contradictions of capitalism in American society. This exchange allowed us to know the level of poverty in this country. This shows that solidarity is more than necessary. The construction of the Friends of MAB [joint signers of the U.S. MAB] and direct relationship with the organizations is very important and necessary. 

What was the purpose of this visit and how do you evaluate it?

The goal was to build a supportive relationship between workers. Secondly, we wanted to better understand how this society is organized, how the people live, how organizations are. We leave here with many positive lessons to meet a very different culture from ours, mainly politically and socially. Better understand the contradictions in the U.S. encourages us and makes us realize that the problems that affect the poor here and in Brazil are very similar. If we look at the U.S. as a laboratory for capitalism, ie, where the system is more advanced, what we see is that capitalism does not serve to build one, just fraternal society. Then the desire of the movement to continue relations with serious organizations here working class and the Friends of the MAB has a very important role. In turn, we have to plan for continuity. Our challenge is to continue building this interchange.